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楼主: zqb138

LBM的CFL条件

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发表于 2012-9-13 02:41:40 | 显示全部楼层
我不懂、也从没做过LBM。我是听了通流版主在[正本清源]版里说到了这里的争论才过来看看的:
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正本清源
http://www.cfluid.com/bbs/viewthread.php?tid=116688
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我的流体力学背景在我发的如下的两个帖子中已有所交待:

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[讨论]伯努利方程是能量方程还是动量方程? [coolboy]
http://www.cfluid.com/bbs/viewthread.php?tid=114265

[讨论]拉瓦尔喷管(Laval nozzle)中的声速究竟是什么? [coolboy]
http://www.cfluid.com/bbs/viewthread.php?tid=116251
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我现在就对上面[73楼]、[74楼]体现双方主要分歧的两段话作些评论:

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As to Zou-He's scheme, the following is a direct quote [under Eq. (37) from Zou-He's PoF paper, 1997] regarding the Poiseuille flow:

"For a fixed tau, the error is second-order in the lattice spacing delta. Of course, large value of tau will give large errors, ..."

Bear in mind: Poiseuille flow is a second flow (2nd-order polynomial in space), thus any 2nd-order scheme ought to get exact solution with NO error.

Obviously someone can perform magic here -- they claim that they can do what Zou-He could not.

The key point is this: All these models can be solved ANALYTICALLY for simple flows -- Zou-He's conclusion is based on the analytic solution, thus we understand them completely. I still don't see one single advantage of the LBGK scheme (and alike) based on reasoning.

If someone offers you the advantages of these models, ask him/her to EXPLAIN, and not to EXCLAIM.
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PROF. LUO是美国大学的教授,拥有丰厚的工资,即使没有项目,也可以过得很好,退休后,也可以高枕无忧地拿着养老金生活无虞。可中国学生,中国科研工作者呢,依靠基本工资,根本无法生存,项目是赖以生存的根本,而申请项目与基金,没有工程应用背景,将是致命的。现在,即使是数学,也要有应用背景。这就是中国的环境。也就是我站的角度。加强理论是必要,将LBM指引上纠缠数学的深渊对科研来说也许没错,但是对中国学生来说则是绝对错误的。这就是中国环境所决定的。

好了,我也不打算再回复下去了,以上观点,看法,立场的不同引发的争论,冒犯的地方,向PROF. LUO表示歉意,也请谅解。

仍然是那句话,是因为站的角度不同,我很希望PROF.LUO能站在中国环境的角度下思考这些问题。也许您认为您对中国学生的指引是正确的,而我则认为您将他们指上歧途,仅此而已,同时我也更希望您以宽容与理解之心对待中国学生,他们的论文到了您的手里,请予以多加指导,而不是告诉他们,你就不应该做这个,那会让学生无所适从。

在中国环境下,学生做什么,不取决于自己,取决于导师;
在中国环境下,教师做什么,也不取决于自己,取决于国家的指挥棒;
在中国环境下,更应该宽容中国的学生,因为他们很不易。

最后,我还是要向几十年在LBM领域从事工作的PROF.LUO表示敬意,求同存异。也许我们有一个共同特性,就是喜欢管闲事,您说得很对,您作为大学者,没必要来这个论坛,而我作为一个普通工作者,亦没有必要吼这几声。对一位年近60,仍然在科研前线的学者,都应该再次表示歉意。
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[ 本帖最后由 coolboy 于 2013-3-7 01:59 编辑 ]
发表于 2012-9-13 02:42:13 | 显示全部楼层


我个人还是倾向于PROF LUO的观点的。若理论上很明显地行不通,但实际计算出来的结果却很好,我们就应该抱有更谨慎的态度来对待那些好的结果。主要也还是因为(也许是中国中庸之道的文化所致)目前“中国环境下”一窝蜂作假的现实。在本论坛上已经提到过好几次的关于至少十几个院士(绝大多数是华人力学界的院士)参与到论文造假的传销行骗活动的的例子说的也就是这么一回事:

[很精彩!]关于Torrence和Compo小波分析论文及EMD和HHT中错误概念的解释
http://bbs.lasg.ac.cn/bbs/thread-3380-1-1.html

[公告]关于“关于Torrence和Compo小波分析论文及...”一帖的重要说明
http://bbs.lasg.ac.cn/bbs/thread-1502-3-1.html

理论明明是错的,但却有几百及目前是几千篇论文的实际结果都很好!上面的讨论中对“一窝蜂作假”即传销的运作方式是如此描述的:

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风雅君 (2004-8-1 13:39:06)
看来你导师即使算不上无知、无赖,但要说你导师是学术上相当浅薄的一个人大概应不算为过。误人子弟是这种人常干的事。

你和你导师现在从事的就是大家所熟知的社会上的那种传销勾当。你导师大概也不懂信号分析什么的。先是自己受了已从事传销勾当的那些人的骗,以为天上可以掉下馅饼来。你是你导师发展的下线,他(她)就想着靠你把本翻回来呢,哈哈。你要怀疑、犹豫不干的话,又没钱买车票回家(每天吃饭、睡觉都成问题)。最后想想要毕业、要学位、导师的课题(资助)也要交差。唉,还是胡乱写一篇论文跟着大伙一起说方法好吧。后面人又读到你的论文,於是乎:“文献都说方法挺好,只不过需要改进及理论解释。”
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从事HHT研究并发HHT论文的绝大多数是华人,也有一些美国人、法国人等。但我印象中从来没有见到有日本人发过HHT论文。这次中央大学以学校名义把HHT的传销活动蔓延到日本,看来也未必能使日本科学家们上当受骗。
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上面说道:“这次中央大学以学校名义把HHT的传销活动蔓延到日本,看来也未必能使日本科学家们上当受骗。”那是2008年的事。最近发现有一位日本科学家(片岡龍峰,Ryuho Kataoka)在2009年也上当受骗了。这位日本科学家还刚好是在那被传销单位的日本东京工业大学。看来以学校名义由官方正式出面直接从事传销活动所具有的欺骗性比个人传销的是要大,大很多!
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所谓“天上可以掉下馅饼来”当然是一种比喻。象上面95楼的片岡龍峰(Ryuho Kataoka)在上当受骗之后,再写出HHT论文并提及“HHT is capable of automatically extracting the Pi1, Pi2, and Pc3 from the irregular high-latitude geoic pulsations”。他所说的这句话也就相当于“天上可以掉下馅饼来”。其他人再读了这论文之后是很容易又参与到继续的传销活动中去的。
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我感到上面风雅君的描述同wdlxmzd版主的三个“在中国环境下”的排比句所描述的意思很能匹配得起来。



[ 本帖最后由 coolboy 于 2013-3-7 02:01 编辑 ]
发表于 2012-9-13 03:29:01 | 显示全部楼层

回复 77# coolboy 的帖子

你转的东西,我基本上看不懂,因为我不是这个领域的,同样对于LBM,具体的您可能也不了解。

适度的理论并无不可,纠缠于理论的深渊对中国学生来说却是不可的,脱离于人的环境来谈科研亦不可取,因为科研是人的科研。

作为中国的LBM研究学生,一部分要走上工作岗位,为了就业,在读期间他还是要研究一些与工程应用实际有关联的问题,否则找工作就是问题;一部分学生将走上科研道路,为了拿到项目,申请基金,他仍然要研究与国家需求方向符合,有工程应用背景的问题。这是环境决定的,发展的前提是生存,如若生存都成问题,谈不了发展。这就是环境。

马克思的共产主义理论没有害到他自己的祖国,却作为幽灵徘徊在中国大地上空。这就是,须晴日,看指引者,携手妻眷 沐加州阳光 安享晚年,被指引着,误入歧途 陷生存困境 进退失据。

[ 本帖最后由 wdlxmzd 于 2012-9-12 19:57 编辑 ]
发表于 2012-9-13 03:56:13 | 显示全部楼层

回复 66# wdlxmzd 的帖子

Since WDLXMZD altered what he/she has said, I decide to post his/her original posting as the following so the public can see what we have been enduring, and whether we should endure it at all. Man must be responsible for his own words and needs. The question to me now is whether or not some justice should be done here.

"公式8E,罗说是自己省略了,那么您文中哪个地方说您省略了,没有吧?没有就
是不严谨,再则,LBM哪条理论说了,速度平方可以省略?文中丝毫文字说明都没
有,您究竟是弄错了,还是省略了,只有上帝和您自己知道;就这么明目张胆地
写上等于零,您不怕误导LBM领域的同行?

"所以当您下次要求别人怎么怎么地的时候,记得自己屁股上也有SHIT。

"本来是very minor issue,这是完全按照LUO自己的思路给放大的,因为他就是这
样要求别人的。"

[ 本帖最后由 luo@odu.edu 于 2012-9-13 21:57 编辑 ]
发表于 2012-9-13 04:07:15 | 显示全部楼层

回复 79# luo@odu.edu 的帖子

您既然要纠缠下去,我就给您回复一个吧。

您第一次说是省略了,第二次说是另外一种分析,前后说法不一致。这就是方舟子打假韩寒的关键。

至于我为什么那么说,是因为您苛责于他人,这个苛责不是这个论坛上,而是在您过往的行事中。当您在您过往的行事中,高举理论解释的大旗,要求别人对所有东西作理论解释的时候,您的随机选取有理论解释没有?

当您高喊,BGK stupid的时候,stupid可是个侮辱性的词,您侮辱了做BGK的学生,并给当时做BGK的学生包括本人在内造成极大心理压力,当您号称9X9的矩阵对13亿中国人就这么难吗,您侮辱了所有的中国人。我在之前已对上述不适言辞表示歉意,迄今为止,您有过因为您的这些行为与言辞表示过任何歉意?

当您苛责于别人的东西的时候,怎么就不能允许别人来苛责您一番?

您是上人,也许难以理解自己高喊几句BGK stupid给学生们造成的羞辱与心理压力,这些东西您想过没有,反省过没有?我的言辞也许伤害到了您,但是您却从心理上伤害了不止一个LBM学生,您有反省过,有过任何表示和歉意没有?


我想您应该反省一下,反省自己多年的行为,给LBM领域造成了什么恶劣的影响。我本是此目的,希望PROF.LUO能够认识到一些严重问题,三思。您在其他版面说,那里的气氛友好令人愉快,可在LBM领域您却给我们制造了压抑如履薄冰的气氛。当您称颂友好令人愉快的气氛的时候,想过自己在LBM领域制造了什么气氛?

如果您仍然介意我的一些言辞,那么我再次表示歉意。

[ 本帖最后由 wdlxmzd 于 2012-9-12 23:02 编辑 ]
发表于 2012-9-13 05:24:11 | 显示全部楼层
这个东西不要认真,谁认真谁就输
发表于 2012-9-13 07:54:11 | 显示全部楼层
各位在讨论时有些激动是可以理解的,但一定注意不要人身攻击。我还是那句话,一个好的学者,不仅是学问好,人品也要好,风度也要好,表现在讨论中就是要用文明的话语与大家交流,大家在此比的是谁的思想更敏锐,而不是比谁的嗓门更大,谁的气势更大。佛教中有贪嗔痴慢的说法,意思是这几种情绪有碍智慧的发生。佛教是两千多年前古人提出的理论,我们今人不说青出于蓝而胜于蓝,但至少不应再犯这种低级错误。
发表于 2012-9-13 08:08:07 | 显示全部楼层

回复 73# luo@odu.edu 的帖子

首先非常感谢罗老师的回复和指点,不胜感激。
“The question is NOT whether the LBGK can realize the no-slip BCs or not. The question is whether the boundary location depends on the viscosity (or tau) in the LBGK scheme, or whether it is mathematically consistent (with the Navier-Stokes solutions).

Inamuro's scheme "works" because he fixed tau=1, and then computed the viscous term "manually", in effect introducing a 2nd relaxation time. This is not an LBGK any more. Also, the scheme was first invented by Junk & Rao, not by Inamuro. This scheme does NOT solve the problem of viscosity-dependence of the boundary location of the LBGK scheme, it only mitigates the problem slightly around tau=1. Even Inamuro himself admits it -- I visited Kyoto University this April, and present an analysis of the so-called "LKS" to him and others, he agreed with my analysis.

As to Zou-He's scheme, the following is a direct quote [under Eq. (37) from Zou-He's PoF paper, 1997] regarding the Poiseuille flow:

"For a fixed tau, the error is second-order in the lattice spacing delta. Of course, large value of tau will give large errors, ..."

Bear in mind: Poiseuille flow is a second flow (2nd-order polynomial in space), thus any 2nd-order scheme ought to get exact solution with NO error.

Obviously someone can perform magic here -- they claim that they can do what Zou-He could not.”
        我由于刚接触LBM,确实对于这一块边界条件的理论不是太了解,书上一般也没有这一块的理论解释,一般就直接给出如何实施,然后看了几篇有关文章Inamuro's边界条件的应用的文章,都计算的结果还不错,所以认为可能没什么问题。不过现在经过罗老师的指点,似乎明白了一点,也许事实还不那么简单。我想请教一下罗老师,有这方面的文献么?请推荐一下。不胜感激,我想把这一块搞清楚。现在感觉LBM边界条件五花八门,脑子有点乱。再请教一下,为什么LBM的边界条件不能像NS方程的那样具有较为完备的理论呢,特别是基于特征线的特征边界条件理论呢?LBM也是PDE呀?看来,以后要思考更加深入一点了。
发表于 2012-9-13 16:14:05 | 显示全部楼层
我本意是反馈底层LBMer意见,期望PROF.LUO认识到一些事情。既然PROF.LUO认为我某些言辞不适,我再次道歉。如果仍然无法释怀,就权当认为当年您对BGK的STUPID叫喊所造成的影响有所减少就好了。

我也不想再争论下去了,至于ZOU-HE边界的外力驱动平板流动,在去年的讨论中,我已经给过程序,这里再次附上,有些说明可以找以前的贴子。

这里要说明的是,PROF.LUO要求理论,大家可以去看郭老师09年书的225页;然后结合一下如下几点。

首先,第一点,郭老师书上224图10.3.1,里面叙述的边界格式是壁面置于J=0.5处,注意ZOU-HE边界,壁面是置于J=0处,我想请大家注意,不过这并不影响我后面要讲的,即公式10.3.11,这个是对于外力驱动平板流动 内点格子 LBM能够成立的。这个是不受边界条件影响的。如有兴趣,大家可以自己推导一下。

第二点:基于10.3.11,那么对于外力驱动平板流动,LBM加某一边界条件就会得到10.3.13,这个时候关键在于滑移速度Us。对于ZOU-HE边界也即关键在于 J=0时,U是不是等于零。由于ZOU-HE边界是求解边界上的方程而得到,对于外力驱动的平板流动是能够确保得到速度零的。

好了,解说完了。程序附后,VC++,VISUAL STUDIO 2008也可以,只要在CPP文件最上面加个#include "stdafx.h" 就可以。另外因为是稳态流动且外力均匀,无须考虑外力离散效应。

如果大家感兴趣
1:可以看看得到的结果是不是精确解,从松驰因子0.51到100,Y方向格子数为20,看看每个点上的结果是不是都是精确解,看看壁面速度是不是零或者机械精度上的零,如e-18等;

2:按照10.3.11输出 看稳定时这个式子是不是对内点成立,如输出
( u[4][Nx/2][0]-2.0*u[3][Nx/2][0]+u[2][Nx/2][0] )*niu, 其结果应该为 负的外力;

最后做个陈词,我不想再争论下去了,因为这个程序放在网上已经是1年半以前的事,这说明别人根本不CARE你这个CODE。前面一位兄台说得很对,其实很多时候只要不当真就能够释怀,别人骂几句BGK STUPID,就听听吧。嗯,这个话题我也不打算再回复下去了。

注:Y方向从0到NY,NY=20,边界格子位于壁面,格子数应为21,不过我一般理解是去掉两个壁面外的各半个格子,是为上面提到的20个格子,这个不打紧。

[ 本帖最后由 wdlxmzd 于 2012-9-13 18:23 编辑 ]

外力驱动.rar

913.23 KB, 下载次数: 128

发表于 2012-9-13 20:19:01 | 显示全部楼层

回复 83# lwd1981 的帖子

Dear LWD1981,

Your question is the simplest one, and yet the hardest one for me to answer succinctly. But let me give a try anyway. The Boltzmann equation (BE) solves the distribution function (DF) in phase space, not the hydrodynamic variables (flow density, momentum, and temperature) in real space, which are only the first few velocity moments of the DF. The boundary conditions of the BE are of course imposed on DF instead of just the hydrodynamic variables. In the Navier-Stokes (NS) equations, the boundary conditions are directly imposed on the hydrodynamic variables, while in the BE, they are indirectly imposed on them, so to speak. The LBE inherits this feature from the BE, because it is derived from the BE. Thus, for any boundary conditions of the LBE, you have to check carefully what are the effects on the hydrodynamic variables. This is a nuisance really, especially for those who are familiar with CFD but not kinetic theory.

However, we do have a theory for the LBE, although it is often ignored. Let's use the boundary conditions for simple flows as an example. You take the LBE with whatever collision model you prefer: BGK, MRT, TRT, LKS, etc. For, say, the Poiseuille flow, the LBE becomes a set of algebraic equations, which can be EASILY solved ANALYTICALLY. When you compare the LBE solution with the analytic solution of the NS equations and you can immediately see the problem you have -- the boundary values of the hydrodynamic variables depend on the collision model you chose: While ALL LB models give a PERFECT parabola, but where u=0 (the no-slip boundary condition) depends on collision model, or more specifically, the relaxation times in the model. This is of course reasonable: the higher-order moments in the LBE (which do not appear in the NS equations) are fluxes, and they affect the hydrodynamic variables -- the relaxation times determine the dissipation of these fluxes, hence the transport coefficients (and beyond).

Once this principle is understood, you will choose a collision model which allows you to match the LBE solution with the NS one EXACTLY, and this is precisely what the MRT model does -- it provides the freedom to adjust/correct the boundary conditions on the hydrodynamic variables, while the LBGK model does not have this luxury -- it has ONLY one parameter which is determined by the Reynolds number (Re). While the LBGK model can yield a PERFECT parabola, its boundary location can be miles off the exact solution, depending on the relaxation parameter "tau". This problem of the LBGK model alone has confused many as whether the LBGK model is 1st or 2nd order accurate, and upon this confusion, an industry has been built -- so many papers have been published, and it's still going. Pure theoretical interest aside, this fatal defect of the LBGK model prevents it to be used for flows through porous media, for which the LBE is one of the most competitive means, if not the best one.

Lately, this erroneous artifact of the LBGK model has found a new life -- it has been cast (or re-cast) as the "kinetic" slip velocity in rarefied gas flow. The problem of this approach is: the flow fields are wrong, and it leads to the preposterous results which require the Knudsen number Kn < 0! Yet, you will see paper after paper on this.

In literature, you will find the pioneering theoretical work by Ginzburg, d'Humieres, and others from early '90's. Often people complain that these papers are difficult to read. This is true to some extend but it's not a very sound excuse. However, if you are interested in the algebraic system resulted from the LBE and its solution, you could read the paper by He et. al. (which can be download from my website, paper #9), which solves the LBGK model with a number of BCs. The same technique can be used for the MRT model and it has been done and published.

The bottom line is: a theory exists, whether it is accepted or not that's another matter. There are only a few gems buried in a desert of pebbles, while the almighty internet provides such a convenience, to find these gems still requires human intelligence -- I wonder if and when computer will do anything/everything so we will no longer need human intelligence. I much sympathize many students in dire situations -- only not too long ago I was in the same situation myself. My own experience and the current situation motivate and compel me to take a forceful stance against fables of falsehood and the charlatans who promote them.

-- LSL

[ 本帖最后由 luo@odu.edu 于 2012-9-13 22:30 编辑 ]
发表于 2012-9-13 21:23:06 | 显示全部楼层

回复85# luo@odu.edu 的帖子

首先非常感谢罗老师耐心而详细的回复。
您推荐的文章我将仔细阅读的。我是做数值计算的,我偏好于理论和算法,所以想
把问题搞明白。我才接触LBM,而且了解气体动理论了解有限,所以希望能够得到
大家的多多指点,不胜感激。再次向罗老师表示感谢。
发表于 2012-9-14 00:18:14 | 显示全部楼层
原帖由 wdlxmzd 于 2012-9-13 03:29 发表 [url=http://www.cfluid.com/bbs/redirect.php?goto=findpost&pid=402471&ptid=116572]马克思的共产主义理论没有害到他自己的祖国,却作为幽灵徘徊在中国大地上空。这就是,须晴日,看指引者,携手妻眷 沐加州阳光 安享晚年,被指引着,误入歧途 陷生存困境 进退失据。


汗,我正携妻在加州晒太阳,不过我也是被指引者,呵呵
发表于 2012-9-14 00:22:22 | 显示全部楼层


不要自作多情,人家是携妻在加州晒太阳 安享晚年;你是携妻在加州晒太阳 努力造人和赚钱。哈哈
发表于 2012-9-14 01:40:48 | 显示全部楼层

回复 84# wdlxmzd 的帖子

WDLXMZD:

The following information in your last message may prove to be sufficient for me to "understand" your method/arguments:

> 如果大家感兴趣
>
> 1:可以看看得到的结果是不是精确解,从松驰因子0.51到100,Y方向格子数为
> 20,看看每个点上的结果是不是都是精确解,看看壁面速度是不是零或者机械
> 精度上的零,如e-18等;
>
> 2:按照10.3.11输出 看稳定时这个式子是不是对内点成立,如输出(
> u[4][Nx/2][0]-2.0*u[3][Nx/2][0]+u[2][Nx/2][0] )*niu, 其结果应该为 负
> 的外力;
>
> 最后做个陈词,我不想再争论下去了,因为这个程序放在网上已经是1年半以前
> 的事,这说明别人根本不CARE你这个CODE。

Several points before I go on. First, I don't know C++. Second, it is true that I do not "care" about your code or anyone else's for that matter, so I don't even want to look at it, for the reason that this problem (Poiseuille flow) is thoroughly solved and the only role of a code is to check someone's carefulness in programming. Thus, as a matter of principle, I do not ask for codes, nor do I offer any, especially for a discussion as the current one -- the burden of validating/verifying a code rests solely on the author(s) of the code, and no one else. If this is interpreted as something else, then I am hardly the one to blame.

This discussion, should you be willing, may not benefit either you or me much. However, it may do someone some good -- this discussion has more than 1800 hits. Thus a conclusive ending may help some of those watching. If you decide not to go on, there is no need to read further.

If you decide to go along, then some conventions must be set. Assuming the D2Q9 lattice BGK scheme as we know it (the important thing is the equilibria) is used, with the units that dx = 1 and dt = 1. The viscosity is nu = ( tau - 1/2 ) / 3, and the speed of sound is given by c_s^2 = 1/3. The most important/crucial information is the boundary conditions, it seems to me that you use the ones described in Zou-He's paper, Phys. Fluids (1997). In any event, the BCs must be given explicitly and clearly.

I suggest the following test to be carried out and the data to be posted here for interested ones to study. First, the choice of channel width should be an odd number, so there is always a grid point, (N+1)/2, exactly at the center. An even number is not as good, but does not matter much for what we are going to do. With a fixed number of fluid grids across the channel, say N = 5, and a fixed force F. Then the test is carried out with tau = 0.65, 1.1, 6.5, and 60.5, corresponding to nu = 0.05, 0.2, 2, and 20, respectively. These parameters are not mandatory. However, one should choose N <= 10, and tau's for which the corresponding viscosity values differ in 1 or 2 orders of magnitude.

The results can be compiled in a 2D table: the streamwise velocity u(j) tabulated as a function of the grid index j = 1, ..., N, and tau. The only required post-processing is to use the least-square method to fit u(j) with the following formula:

u(j) = Umax * (j - Y1) * (Y2 - j)

If the code has no error, which seems to be case as you indicated, the above formula can be fitted with machine accuracy.  The end results are two numbers: Umax and H := | Y2 - Y1 | in the unit of dx = 1.  The dependence of Umax and H on tau will tell how LBGK scheme performs with the specified BCs.

We should encourage volunteers to carry out the same test by using your code or their own codes -- comparing notes is never a bad idea.

-- LSL

[ 本帖最后由 luo@odu.edu 于 2012-9-15 08:11 编辑 ]
发表于 2012-9-24 07:25:51 | 显示全部楼层

回复 89# luo@odu.edu 的帖子

I issued an "invitation" to WDLXMZD to publically demonstrate how his/her code works for the Poiseuille flow. So far there has no response. The time to complete the test shouldn't be more than 2 hours: a few seconds (literally) for the actual computation, and an hour or so to do the least-square analysis.

Now I would like to invite volunteers to conduct this simple test. You can use WDLXMZD's LBGK code, or your own LBGK code. I would like to see if anyone can get the exact solution of the Navier-Stokes equation for the Poiseuille flow with the value of tau between 0.51 and 100.

If no one responds to this invitation within a week or so, I will give my own closing statement then.

-- LSL

[ 本帖最后由 luo@odu.edu 于 2012-9-26 19:01 编辑 ]
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